Comments on: Planning a route to Hawaii http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/ human power rocks. enjoy the ride. Fri, 03 Jun 2011 00:57:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Peter http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24671 Peter Wed, 03 Mar 2010 07:22:23 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24671 David: You missed my point. I'm in full agreement with you and it's just that fact that you can't avoid being significantly affected by the wind, no matter how you design your boat, that i find makes it impossible to make a clear distinction between what should count as human powered versus a wind powered ocean crossing. David:

You missed my point. I’m in full agreement with you and it’s just that fact that you can’t avoid being significantly affected by the wind, no matter how you design your boat, that i find makes it impossible to make a clear distinction between what should count as human powered versus a wind powered ocean crossing.

]]> By: David Tangye http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24665 David Tangye Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:35:19 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24665 re "I personally can’t help but feel that this reduces the “purity” of the attempt in a significant way since it removes it from the ideal of only using human power." When you get out there you will understand. You will basically be a tiny insignificant spec at the mercy of the sea, currents and winds. The best you will be able to do is plot a course that lets you take advantage of them. That should be your strategy. Anything else is doomed to total failure, unless you are not only the fastest human alive but also the luckiest :-). Whether you like the "purity" of it on not, you are basically going to be blown and carried to where you want to go. Seamen understand the power of nature out there and work with it. Ignore it at your peril. re “I personally can’t help but feel that this reduces the “purity” of the attempt in a significant way since it removes it from the ideal of only using human power.”
When you get out there you will understand. You will basically be a tiny insignificant spec at the mercy of the sea, currents and winds. The best you will be able to do is plot a course that lets you take advantage of them. That should be your strategy. Anything else is doomed to total failure, unless you are not only the fastest human alive but also the luckiest :-) .

Whether you like the “purity” of it on not, you are basically going to be blown and carried to where you want to go. Seamen understand the power of nature out there and work with it. Ignore it at your peril.

]]> By: Murray http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24663 Murray Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:55:35 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24663 I suppose the other consideration is the potential negative effect of more wind and the potential damage and subsequent delay that could cause. I suppose the other consideration is the potential negative effect of more wind and the potential damage and subsequent delay that could cause.

]]> By: greg http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24662 greg Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:11:04 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24662 Good point Peter. I know that in the Woodvale race, they all have to use the same ocean row boat design, and they are not allowed to hang up laundry, or use hatches that open upwards or anything that could be thought of as a sail. However, they also have an open category of boat design. See Charlie Pitchers row boat: http://www.transatlanticsolo.com/blog/index.php?id=153 It catches the wind with the low bow and large flat cabin. He is making fantastic time as well. Good point Peter. I know that in the Woodvale race, they all have to use the same ocean row boat design, and they are not allowed to hang up laundry, or use hatches that open upwards or anything that could be thought of as a sail. However, they also have an open category of boat design. See Charlie Pitchers row boat: http://www.transatlanticsolo.com/blog/index.php?id=153 It catches the wind with the low bow and large flat cabin. He is making fantastic time as well.

]]> By: Peter http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24661 Peter Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:06:20 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24661 Greg: I've been thinking about this for some time when it comes to human powered ocean crossings and have to ask: What's your take on the fact that the wind seems to be able to make such a significant contribution to the average speed of such boats? I personally can't help but feel that this reduces the "purity" of the attempt in a significant way since it removes it from the ideal of only using human power. Unfortunatly I can't really see a way to remove the large influence of the wind apart from trying to make the crossing in a human powered submarine. :-) For a more concrete example of how this could be a problem in practice: Imagine that you've managed to complete the journey and have the record. Later someone else manage to better your time but only because his boat was much less aerodynamic than yours and hence got a greater contribution from the wind. Would that still count as a human powered record or would it be "cheating" and regardless of which, is it even possible to draw a line somewhere between human and wind powered boats that isn't completely arbitrary? Greg:

I’ve been thinking about this for some time when it comes to human powered ocean crossings and have to ask: What’s your take on the fact that the wind seems to be able to make such a significant contribution to the average speed of such boats?

I personally can’t help but feel that this reduces the “purity” of the attempt in a significant way since it removes it from the ideal of only using human power. Unfortunatly I can’t really see a way to remove the large influence of the wind apart from trying to make the crossing in a human powered submarine. :-)

For a more concrete example of how this could be a problem in practice: Imagine that you’ve managed to complete the journey and have the record. Later someone else manage to better your time but only because his boat was much less aerodynamic than yours and hence got a greater contribution from the wind. Would that still count as a human powered record or would it be “cheating” and regardless of which, is it even possible to draw a line somewhere between human and wind powered boats that isn’t completely arbitrary?

]]> By: RoninVancouver http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24660 RoninVancouver Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:21:06 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24660 Hi Greg, Another point in favor of taking the longer - Escape - route is that you will only touch the outer edge of the Pacific Gyre. There's a lot of plastic gunk floating around in that area - bags, bottles, ropes, nets, etc - and would add considerable time to your endeavor just cleaning the prop every few hours. You might get a small taste of that in the next trial if you peddle 50-60nm due west or slightly wnw from the coast of VanIsle. Again, it will depend on wind and current at the time of the test, but still experience is the best teacher. Right there with you, Ron Hi Greg,

Another point in favor of taking the longer – Escape – route is that you will only touch the outer edge of the Pacific Gyre. There’s a lot of plastic gunk floating around in that area – bags, bottles, ropes, nets, etc – and would add considerable time to your endeavor just cleaning the prop every few hours.

You might get a small taste of that in the next trial if you peddle 50-60nm due west or slightly wnw from the coast of VanIsle. Again, it will depend on wind and current at the time of the test, but still experience is the best teacher.

Right there with you,

Ron

]]> By: Russell Moore http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24657 Russell Moore Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:50:21 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24657 Greg, it would seem that a large proportion of the distance covered by rowers/paddlers crossing oceans comes from favourable currents and winds, so why not take advantage of them. Greg, it would seem that a large proportion of the distance covered by rowers/paddlers crossing oceans comes from favourable currents and winds, so why not take advantage of them.

]]> By: Ray Girard http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2010/02/25/planning-a-route-to-hawaii/comment-page-1/#comment-24655 Ray Girard Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:33:33 +0000 http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/?p=3094#comment-24655 You are absolutely correct to allow for current and trades as they have been the downfall of many fairly recent crossing attempts around the world. You are absolutely correct to allow for current and trades as they have been the downfall of many fairly recent crossing attempts around the world.

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